Tuesday, 29 May 2012


Yesterday, an interesting image appeared on my Facebook Newsfeed.

Those who know me, know that I fact-check such things before sharing them. There's a lot of misinformation and plain old bullshit on those Interwebs. So, with a paranoid thought of "If anyone ever sees my search history, they're going to think I'm a total sicko" in the back of my mind, I prayed to the Google Gods for enlightenment.

What I found, worried me. As it happens, the original image seems to be true, in the sense that there aren't specific laws to prohibit it. Although, there have been imaginative uses of other laws to prosecute bestiality cases, such as sodomy laws, animal abuse laws and even a case where someone was charged with sex with a minor. What really concerned me was reading the Wikipedia page and getting the sense that many people actually think it is perfectly normal and that perhaps we are just ignorant.

I was left wondering about those crazy right-wingers who say that legalising gay marriage would lead to people wanting to marry goats. Of course that's stupid. When inter-racial marriage was legalised, it never led to people walking an alpaca down the aisle. Not even the clearly sexier llama got to bleat out "I do". 
When women were given the right to vote, was there a call for Squirrels to be given the vote? Of course not. Despite many of us secretly wishing Foamy was actually Emperor of Earth. 

You cannot deny rights to one set of people, because you're worried that it might lead to an unrelated groups of people demanding rights. You cannot deny consenting, adult human beings from having their relationship with a fellow, consenting, adult human being becoming recognised fairly under the law, based on a fear of paedophiles and zoophiles possibly being next in line. There aren't heroin caf├ęs in Amsterdam, there aren't voting camels in Egypt and there aren't Moose weddings in Canada. 

Having said this, will the paedophiles and zoophiles be the next ones to come forward and declare "pride" for their feelings? Will they try to gain legal recognition or their unorthodox sexual encounters and relationships? Reading the wikipedia article on zoophilia and bestiality laws, I started to wonder. The view points given were suggesting that it was natural and harmless and that we are just ignorant and prejudiced. I'm going to leave paedophilia alone here, because I discussed these subjects and why they are unnatural and wrong, in a previous blog post. Simply enough, children cannot consent and I don't think anyone in their right mind could question that. However, the question of whether animals can consent may be a little blurrier and I felt the need to readdress the issue. 

Certainly, animals can appear to consent and cross-breeding does occur in the wild. I've always thought that inserting one's penis into an animal would constitute rape just as much as much a paedophilia does. That seemed pretty clear to me. An animal does not have the social awareness or cognitive abilities to consent to the act it has not initiated, does it? There are people who disagree with this and state that an animal that has reached sexual maturity can often initiate sex and that some females experience orgasm.

Many animals will do anything for sexual gratification. They hump toys, cushions and legs all of the time. If that animal inserts its penis into a woman's vagina or a man's anus, is there any difference? Or are we just repulsed by something we illogically dislike or just doesn't turn US on? 

Is zoophilia just another sexual orientation? If an animal doesn't put up a fight, does that make it morally acceptable? 

If sex is only ok when it is likely to produce healthy children, are condoms, anal sex, oral sex, birth control tablets, incest, abortions and homosexuality ALL equally immoral? What about people with certain hereditary conditions, elderly couples and people who are infertile? 

If we have no right to impose our will on animals, do we have a right to neuter, spay, put on leads, put in cages, euthanise or even kill and eat them? 

If we go on what occurs in nature, should rape be legal?! (A very clear indicator that what happens in nature is only a PART of what we use to develop our morals. Our brains are built to feel guilt when we harm another [without cause or at least justification], so consent is definitely something necessary to moral sexuality). 

Animals and humans have been hurt (and killed) during interspecies sexual encounters. Is it possible for men to get 'stuck' inside a woman? Should we ban giant dildos and fisting? What about self harm?

If it is just a case of grossing us out, should we be banning people who enjoy pissing on each other? 

Is stroking a dog's ears any different to rubbing its genitals? 

At this point in writing this blog post, I stopped. 
I pasted what I had written onto Facebook and looked for answers. I continued to research on the Internet. I looked at forums, discussion sites, ethical debating sites.
The subject that came up most was the one of consent, but if a horse doesn't consent, it'll kick, bite or scratch, won't it? That's what they do if they are out of season and a member their own species tries to mate with them. 

Another point raised was that some men get sexually excited during a prostate exam and some women even climax whilst breastfeeding, but they're mind is not on sex and they are not seeking sexual gratification. That means it is purely physical. A secondary, usually unwanted experience. A by-product. When an animal "perform oral sex" on a human, it is either bonding or licking something off. It isn't doing it to provide a human with sexual pleasure or get any sexual gratification itself. But what about a female animal who splays and accepts penetration? And what about a male who mounts a human and penetrates them? It seems to me that the argument then comes down to whether an animal is having sex to reproduce and sexual pleasure is secondary and a by-product or whether they have sex for pleasure. 

Female Bonobos are known to stimulate their clitoris by rubbing it against the clitoris of another female. Dogs hump pillows. In fact, it could be fairly said most animals initiate sex for the pleasure they derive. Reproduction is the by-product in this instance. In fact, not only does homosexuality (in fact, not just sex, but long-term, monogamous relationships) exist in nature, but so does necrophilia (thought apparently rare). The ethics involved in THAT are a whole other debate to be looked in to. Although, once more, it's something I am repulsed by. 

One thing I do not think is that it is a sexuality. I do not think people are born that way. Homosexuality has been backed up by years of physical and psychological research and there have been brain differences shown. However, it would seem extremely illogical that a human brain would be developed that only finds horses attractive or that finds humans and dogs attractive. It wouldn't seem to make much sense. Therefore, I think it is a fetish. Something that is a result of psychological development. However, one's favourite colour, liking to be tied up and blindfolded in bed or favourite foods or scents are probably stemmed from psychological development (experiences, influences). So it may be 'treatable' but should it be treated any more than brainwashing someone to prefer the colour red over the colour blue? We've not proven it to be harmful. 

A thought that occurred to me is that homophobia is often the result of suppressed homosexual urges. So could our disgust of bestiality be the result of repressed urges and denial?  I don't think it could be easily measured. When I saw an illustration of a man fucking a goat, on Wikipedia, I definitely felt a twinge from seeing a naked man, but I wouldn't feel the same way seeing 2 goats having sex or from one horse's genitals or even from seeing a woman getting fucked by a donkey. My attraction was to the male human. I am a gay man and I feel no more attraction to a cow's arsehole than I do towards a woman's vagina. So I think that theory would fail. 

Another thing that occurs to me is that we often place importance on consent being fairly obtained. Most of us agree that drug rape is wrong, taking advantage of someone who is far too drunk to know what is going on is wrong, blackmailing someone into sex is wrong and many countries (including here in the UK) place extra legal burdens on people in a position of trust or position of power. For example, a teacher cannot sleep with a student (legally) until they reach 18; not the usual age of 16. I see my pets as my babies, my children, my wards, my responsibility. I care for their needs and they rely on me for survival. Someone having sex with a pet seems like a huge breach of trust to me and I would feel like it was similar to a parent and their adult offspring. Of course incest is a separate and very complicated subject in itself. 
But we're still left with wild animals. I'm not sure I actually find that as disgusting actually. Still very much not for me, but I think much of my disgust stems from a feeling of taking advantage of a domesticated animal. Would a wild animal let you fuck it? I very much doubt so. I suppose it could be likened to "grooming", like a peadophile does to his or her victims. 

Perhaps we should say they can take their chances with wild animals that are big enough to defend themselves from unwanted sexual passes. That would possibly suit everyone concerned.

I can't find any rational basis for being against ALL forms of sexual zoophilia. Although, probably most forms. 
It still makes me uncomfortable. In fact, I am repulsed by it. I won't be flying any banners in support of any aspects of it. It's certainly not for me. However, very surprisingly, this blog post never went the way I thought it would. I'm not entirely sure if some, however few, cases may not be immoral. I don't think my mind has been blown so severely since I finally accepted atheism as truth. It went against everything I wanted to be true and what I had always assumed to be true. This subject has opened my eyes, but - based on my research - I still feel it is rarely moral; if ever. What I never expected was to think that there may perhaps be exceptions to the rule. 

For now, all comments are welcome - so long as they aren't abuse for being open-minded. 

Still, do I think gay marriage will lead to interspecies marriage? Why would it? It's just NOT the same thing at all. Consent is very obviously present and harm has been proven to not result.

Will bestiality ever become socially acceptable and legally recognised? I always assumed not, but now I'm not so sure. It certainly won't be connected to LGBT rights though, as just as many LGBT people are equally disgusted by zoophilia. The LGBT community won't be advocating it any more or any sooner than the heterosexual community. That much, I feel sure of. 

Friday, 18 May 2012

Mitt's Mormon Madness

American Christians seem to be comfortable voting for Mitt Romney, because Mormons believe in God and Jesus, so he's just another Christian, right?


In fact, the whole cult (sorry, "religion") was created by a man with a history of being a con-artist. He claimed to be able to read from golden plates, using 2 magical stones, inside a hat, using a form of English from just 200 years previous. 

What did the plates say though? 

They said the Catholics and Protestants had both got it all wrong!

What does Mitt Romney's religion teach?

Jews are evil.
[1 Nephi 1:19-20 2:11-13 19:13-14. 2 Nephi 10:3 25:2 4:14]

Native Americans are filthy, lazy, unholy and cursed.
[1 Nephi 12:22-23 13:11. 2 Nephi 5:21-24. Mosiah 25:11]

White skin is the best.
[1 Nephi 13:15. 2 Nephite 3:8-9. 3 Nephi 19:25]

The Catholic Church was created by the devil.
[1 Nephi 13:6 14:3]
(The Book of Mormon refers to the Catholic Church as the "whore of all the earth")

Everyone who isn't Mormon is going to hell.
[1 Nephi 14]

All non-Mormon churches will be destroyed.
[1 Nephi 22:23]

Dark skin is a curse.
[2 Nephi 5:21-22 30:6. Alma 3:6-7. 3 Nephi 2:14-16. Mormon 5:15]

Atheists will lose the ability to speak.
[Alma 30:29-57]

If you ask God to kill your enemies, he will do it for you.
[Alma 33:10]

Children go to hell if their fathers sin.
[2 Nephi 24:21]

Baptising children is an insult to God.
[Moroni 8:9-17]

Gay and bisexual people are evil.
[2 Nephi 13:9]

Men can have 7 wives.
[2 Nephi 14:1]
(In fact, Mitt Romney's great-great-grandfather, had twelve!)

People in inter-racial marriages are cursed.
[2 Nephi 5:23]

Mixed-race children and their parents are cursed.
[Alma 3:8-9]

If you don't believe everything above, you'll go to hell.
[1 Nephi 14]

God lives on the planet Kolob, has many wives and Jesus isn't his only son.
[Book of Abraham]

There are multiple gods and men can become gods.
[Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith]

However insane the 2 videos below seem to be (and they are), 
they do correspond to actual Mormon teachings!!

Sunday, 13 May 2012

A statement about "Equality News & Bits"

On Friday 4th May, the moderator of a popular anti-theist Facebook page, "The Fried Rice God" asked me and Lise McGregor to run his new page, "Equality News and Bits." Since both of us lean Centre-left, it was a good fit. Our focus was to promote awareness and discussions on matters of LGBT, racial and gender equality, while debunking the hateful side of the (US) Republican Party. 

It was to be a political forum; welcoming new thoughts and ideas. There were to be a number of contributors, with the FRG as a non-contributing adviser, the two of us as the leaders and decision-makers. I saw first-hand, how many people put their trust in Lise;
with the help of our friends and contacts, we had "hundreds" of members within mere hours.

Lise and I were told we would have complete control over the content of "Equality News and Bits", but we soon found out, that wasn't the case. Posts appeared that condoned illegal acts and glorified violent extremist left groups and it was discovered that these were posted by the FRG. Since our goals and direction for the page were not going to be met, we decided to step down. We can't thank you enough for all of your support and good wishes. We hope the page does well. No hard feelings. Again, thanks for your support. If Lise and I start our own page in the future, you'll be the first to know.

Stephen Frost and Lise McGregor

Stick Figure Family. Meh, Why not?

Monday, 16 April 2012

The logic of hate

Two major parts of my life are my sexuality and my belief system. That's not to say they should be a big part of my life, but we live in a world where these two things are brought to the forefront of politics, day to living, how some people perceive others and how we are grouped, defined and labelled in society.

Perhaps I have become a perpetrator of this same problem myself. I have always been opinionated and I have always felt the need to share those opinions. I'm happy enough to admit if I am proven wrong, but when that doesn't happen, I will continue to fight for what I believe in. When people are attacking homosexuality, I feel forced to defend myself. Defending myself has got to a point where I am actually somewhat on the offence too, because remaining quiet and NOT trying to make people change their ignorant and illogical views, as well as shouting out "I'm here and I want to be counted!", would make me a part of the problem.

Most mainstream religions have a rather unusual interest in the sex lives of others, so changing my atheist view to one of an anti-theist was a very natural progression that I didn't really make consciously. When someone is telling me that they hate me, because God hates me, my logical response is "Well, he's not fucking real anyway!". With religion creeping into politics, it has stopped being harmless. I no longer feel able to live and let live. I feel that I am at a point where they have got out of line. If your illogical belief is working against me (and decency), then I'm afraid I need to stamp on that belief. That's not to imply I like quieter, more accepting faith. I dislike it far less, but I still dislike all barriers to science, logic and common sense. I think education is one of the most important aspects of humanity.

Now, my problem isn't with hate. Oh no, I have plenty of hate in my heart. Perhaps that's not a good thing, but it's a fact. My problem is with ILLOGICAL hate. Hate that is based on someone's choices, we can talk about. However, if you hate someone for something they have no control over, where is the logic or sense? For me, this means I don't hate people of any sexuality, gender or race, for starters. It also leads me to be more judgemental of ethnic minority homophobes and racist LGBT people, because I would have thought they would be more compassionate and understanding of being in a similar situation. Alas, no, some people are just too stupid to make the connection, but I guess stupidity is often a trait of a the homophobe or the racist.

Now, the problem with accepting all "sexuality" as natural and not a choice; that is to say the problem with accepting that a reason not to hate or disapprove of them, becomes cloudy in some areas. For example, are paedophiles and zoophiles to be embraced? Where I start to find my answer is by looking at what is natural; not just what is a choice. To the best of my knowledge, in the animal world, sex with sexually immature animals isn't common-place. Also, although cross-breeding occurs, it is between similar animals and I think it is usually between animals that are able to reproduce together. I'm no expert on this though. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is perfectly natural and occurs in nature quite a lot. What's more, it isn't just sexual gratification, but love/partnership.

Furthermore, we have also progressed beyond our primitive instincts. Now, is this a contradiction of my last point? I don't think so, because that was about whether it is natural. Now we look at how it fits our humanity. If we allowed ourselves to be completely animal, rape would not be taboo, let alone considered immoral or made illegal. That's now how we have socially evolved though. We realise that rape actually hurts the victim, mentally/emotionally. We also recognise the unfairness of theft, dishonesty, murder etc., because of our instincts as pack animals, perhaps. Whatever the reason, we value the happiness of others and have the ability to feel sympathy and empathy. Where is this all leading? Consent.

So can we really compare paedophilia and zoophilia to homosexuality? In the respect that they may not choose their desires, they are comparable. However, a child is regarded (correctly, in my opinion) as not having the capability to properly consent to sexual activity. Similarly, an animal does not possess the ability to understand and consent. Therefore, the practices are immoral. Perhaps it is unfair to judge these people for their feelings and desire. However, acting upon them is no better than a rapist ignoring their rape instinct. Homosexuality (and bisexuality) is entirely different, because it is among consenting adults (assuming that particular person isn't ALSO a paedophile or zoophile - they are entirely separate). Homosexuality is not harmful to anyone AND is natural, so this is something that should not be hated.

Do I really need to add reasons why race isn't unnatural or a choice? I sure hope not.

In my experience, homophobia and racism come from ignorance, lies and misinformation. Sometimes it can come from or lead to something of a superiority complex too. Never assume that what you are being told is the truth. In fact, if you accept everything I have said, you may believe things that aren't true, because I might have made a mistake. Check EVERYTHING. Question EVERYTHING. Think for yourself.

That brings me back to religion. I could go on and on about why I am an atheist and anti-theist, but that is a whole other post waiting to happen and I've probably bored you enough already, so let's stick to the point that religion sometimes teaches homosexuality as a sin, but it also ignores other sins that are mentioned in whichever holy text. Let's take the bible. If someone preaching about homosexuality being evil and they're wearing mixed fabrics, who decided that one was more important that the other? Who decided that it was ok to pray in public (something Jesus forbade), but it's not ok to be gay (something Jesus never though to even mention - let alone condemn)? Again, you need to base your morals on rationality and logic. Think for yourself.

If someone does something or IS 'something' that doesn't harm you, hating them for it is stupid. If you think it is harmful, are you SURE it is?

Friday, 6 April 2012

In the beginning...

I've never had a blog before. For now, I'll just say hi and promise you that I will soon come back and update this. I'll introduce myself and then future posts are likely to be rants about pet peeves, questions I have about specific subjects, opinions I have on pretty much everything and just fun little journey where we can discover life together. Let's explore existence. While I'm away, you can start making sure your mind is wide open. If you can do that without using a hatchet, that'd be just lovely. Ste.